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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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| I think it more likely he incorporated popular contemporary beliefs about these druids -- which may have never been any less fantastical than "wizards" and "sorcerers". |
The usual problem of separating fact from fiction but exacerbated by the exclusivity of the sect/caste or whatever. Druids might well be a misnomer or even a figment of someone's fantasy but 'doctors' of learning or healing surely existed to wreak their magic.
| In so far as Druids are linked with temples at all, it is with natural oak-grove ones not stone ones. The Classical sources make it perfectly clear that Druids were an intelligentsia, whether or not this embraces 'ritual' duties. |
This is fantasy surely. Not many members of the intelligentsia would hold ceremonies in the woods. The vast majority of (managed) woodland was around the London area which is where you'd expect to find 'doctors'.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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So what took them "eighteen years" to learn?
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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Rocky's question about months ('Did The Dark Ages Exist?' thread) makes me wonder what a 'Druid' year meant.
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Some word and letter crunching:
Dec eangli:
Eang-Li perhaps variation of O.E. - iunge �young� and perhaps indicating first people, first farmers;
iunge man, abbreviated; iu man, yoe man, dialect change; gea man� germania??
Dec eangli:
Eang-lond � England � Young Land - to seed, first to seed � Virgin Land � Virgin Earth � Earth Mother � Nurthus � Virgin Mother � Mary.
I wonder if Nurthus may be cognate with North � North People.
Pushing it out; Yeoman � Yeo � iu � iu-ton � yu-ton � jutton � woton � Reaping � farming.
Grim = Odin
Grim = Grime grime
1590, probably alteration of M.E. grim "dirt, filth," from M.L.G. greme "dirt" (cf. Flem. grijm, M.Du. grime). The verb was earliest (as M.E. grymen, c.1470) but was replaced early 16c. by begrime.
Celtic � Bre � iuton��. Britain
Youngster is first attested 1589 (earlier was youngling, from O.E. geongling).
Young land may be a name given to Britain and the Dogger area at the turn of the ice age, (tundra), past down through oral traditions.
Angel:
Perhaps the word Angel describes plowing or tilling, evolving to include any bent or angle shape.
Another Germanic tribe with Ang - Angrivarii
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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Caught the tail-end of a programme where Boudica was being discussed; apparently her name is synonymous with 'victory' but the big surprise was that she only becomes a part of English history under the Tudors (Polydore Virgil again). Gildas doesn't mention her apart from a vague reference to a "lioness" which begs the question did she exist. Elizabeth I of course used her as a queenly if flawed role model.
Tacitus is regarded as an impeccable source. If his writings on B are being questioned then the Druids would have to be treated as suspect too.
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Ishmael
In: Toronto
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| Hatty wrote: | | Tacitus is regarded as an impeccable source. If his writings on B are being questioned then the Druids would have to be treated as suspect too. |
Be prepared to throw it all away.
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N R Scott
In: Middlesbrough
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A few weeks back I was reading 'Sir John Oldcastle' (one of the Shakespeare Apocrypha plays) and I came across this passage. It involves a priest's mistress (Doll), an old servant (Harpool) and a constable.
Harpool. Welcome, sweet Lass, welcome.
Doll. I thank you, good Sir, and Master Constable also.
Harpool. A plump Girl by the Mass, a plump Girl; ha, Doll, ha. Wilt thou forsake the Priest, and go with me, Doll?
Constable. Ah!, well said, Master Harpool, you are a merry old Man i'faith; you will never be old now by the Mack, a pretty Wench indeed.
Harpool. Ye old mad merry Constable, art thou advis'd of that? Ha, well said Doll, fill some Ale here.
Doll (aside). Oh, if I wist this old Priest would not stick to me, by Jove I would ingle this old Serving-man.
Harpool. O you old mad Colt, i'faith I'll ferk you: fill all the pots in the House there. |
What caught my eye, apart from the general saucy nature of it all, was the word ingle. When I read it I took it to mean shag/fuck/have sex with. When I looked it up it does mean that but it means it in a, well, gay way.
| In Ben Jonson's play Poetaster (acted by the Children of the Chapel Royal, 1600) a father hears that his son has decided to become an actor and exclaims, "What? Shall I have my son a stager now? An ingle for players?" (1.2.13-14). (Through the eighteenth century, "ingle" remained a slang term for what the The Oxford English Dictionary terms "a boy-favourite (in bad sense).") |
My first thought when I heard the word Ingle was England. I don't suppose there's a link but if there was it would be a bit interesting.
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N R Scott
In: Middlesbrough
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Out of interest I also read that the word ingle comes from the Gaelic(?) word aingeal meaning fire or fireplace. The word also appears in quite a few place names - Ingleby Barwick, Ingleby Arncliffe, etc. And it pops up in surnames a fair bit.
God knows what the surname Ingledew means.
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Looks like ....where you place it ....In (the) Girl?
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Ingleby.....whore house place.
Ingledew.... Dogging area.
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| N R Scott wrote: | | Out of interest I also read that the word ingle comes from the Gaelic(?) word aingeal meaning fire or fireplace. |
aingeal.....looks more like "Bright Fire" so maybe (if you want to go down this route), this was a beacon?
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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Spanish dictionary gives meaning of ingle as groin. Ingles with an accent is Englishman (England = Inglaterra in Spanish, Ingeltra in Arabic). Would English playwrights pick up and run with such conceits?
Ingle is a feminine noun, for some reason. Gives a whole new slant to the queenly 'belly of a king'.
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The question is already answered.
Anglesey.
England.
This is only an apparent confusion, because all you guys are obsessed with tribes and homelands.
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N R Scott
In: Middlesbrough
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| Hatty wrote: | | Spanish dictionary gives meaning of ingle as groin. |
That's interesting. And the Inglaterra & Ingeltra. Maybe there is a link somewhere. I wonder how far back all these words go.
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| N R Scott wrote: | | Maybe there is a link somewhere. I wonder how far back all these words go. |
Ang=Ing=Eng.... all same very very old idea.
So for example
Angle(r) is Ingle that is why you have the word hooker.....
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