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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Tanker Seized!
The Americans are making the classic mistake all democracies make when confronting non-democracies. They think that falling living standards in non-democracies is correlated with regime change. (As it might be were the boot on the other foot.)
It hasn't happened yet (write in if you know of an example) but that's not to say it can't happen. Will it happen this time? Well... living standards in Venezuela have collapsed catastrophically under the present regime and the regime is still there. But that's not to say an oil tanker or two extra won't push it over the edge.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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The Israelis have adopted a new policy in the West Bank. They have taken to fencing in entire Palestinian built-up areas, providing one gate so the inhabitants can come and go but then closing the gate for long periods (even Israeli soldiers need a bit of shut-eye from time to time).
The latest one, according to Al-Jazeera, has thirty-eight thousand Palestinians in virtual lock-up. But that prompts the question: how large does a prison have to be before it ceases to be a prison and is just an ordinary town with somewhat restricted travel arrangements? After all, nobody can get out of North Korea and you wouldn't call North Korea a prison, would you?
No, these Palestinians have got very little to complain about. I only leave Notting Hill at Christmas and for the summer hols and if that meant having to ask someone to leave a sidegate open for an hour or two, it wouldn't be much of a hardship.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Newsnight: After the Bondi Beach shootings, the Chief Rabbi says this slogan should be made unlawful, do you -- and the government -- agree?
Wes Streeting: He is absolutely right. Can't people see the link between that kind of rhetoric and attacks on Jewish people as Jewish people.
You can't get chutzpah clearer than that. Wes may be too young to remember it but the Intifada started out as West Bank youths throwing stones at Israeli soldiers out of sheer desperation and getting shot for their pains.
As for it being applied to Jewish people, one can only ask who are the people standing shoulder-to-shoulder with the Israelis and their policies in the West Bank? Let's ask the Chief Rabbi, why don't we.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Mick Harper wrote: | The Israelis have adopted a new policy in the West Bank. They have taken to fencing in entire Palestinian built-up areas, providing one gate so the inhabitants can come and go but then closing the gate for long periods (even Israeli soldiers need a bit of shut-eye from time to time).
The latest one, according to Al-Jazeera, has thirty-eight thousand Palestinians in virtual lock-up. But that prompts the question: how large does a prison have to be before it ceases to be a prison and is just an ordinary town with somewhat restricted travel arrangements? After all, nobody can get out of North Korea and you wouldn't call North Korea a prison, would you?
No, these Palestinians have got very little to complain about. I only leave Notting Hill at Christmas and for the summer hols and if that meant having to ask someone to leave a sidegate open for an hour or two, it wouldn't be much of a hardship. |
Israel currently holds 53% of Gaza, the peace proposal is that an International Stabalisation force will be brought in to replace the Israelis, then in the longer term rebuilt territory will be handed back to Gazans in exchange for Hamas and other Jihadis handing over their weapons.
My prediction is that Hamas never will, so we can get used to Gaza being about 50% of its former size. When the Palestinians figure this out, there might well be a civil war in the bit of Gaza occupied by Palestinians, as you now have 2 million Gazans occupying a city that will be half its former size, some of which is derelict, ie ideal for ambushes, cover use of IEDS, built over a still existing tunnel system that Hamas is still using to control the area they hold. It will be like a prison without guards, as the International stabisation force will not engage militarily against Hamas and the Israelis will control it with drones and bombings. Hamas will seek to implement strict Sharia Law as the only way of creating order.
Not Good.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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The Hamas position is currently that they will hide their weapons, with a promise not to use them for a limited time period.
Israel is still intent on eliminating all the Hamas leadership. The last killled was Raad Saad, the group’s second-in-command in Gaza, who was killed on Saturday.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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| Wiley wrote: | | Israel currently holds 53% of Gaza, the peace proposal is that an International Stabalisation force will be brought in to replace the Israelis, then in the longer term rebuilt territory will be handed back to Gazans in exchange for Hamas and other Jihadis handing over their weapons. My prediction is that Hamas never will |
This is the old IRA conundrum. They can put all their weapons 'beyond use', they can disarm completely, they can do anything you damn well ask them to. But they only have to pick up the phone and they're back in business.
It's the same in Ukraine. They've got to cut down this, get rid of that, must never form alliances with the other. But one phone call later... I just don't understand why anyone even bothers about this sort of thing.
| so we can get used to Gaza being about 50% of its former size. |
I don't know where you're getting this from. Israel can sit there on the Yellow Line till kingdom come, it still won't be anything except Gaza. Either the whole of Gaza is part of the Israeli state or it's 100% Palestinian Gaza. It'll end up like the West Bank on your scenario and I can't see the Israelis relishing another one of those (with extra Hamas).
| When the Palestinians figure this out, there might well be a civil war in the bit of Gaza occupied by Palestinians |
Good point. Maybe that's the Israeli medium-term plan. 'Look how ungovernable it is etc etc.' Not that I'd give much of a chance to the existing sub-Hamas outfits. But the Israelis should be able to supply a few new ones. Look at how they came up with a whole new 'Handing-Out-Aid' organisation to replace the UN/Red Cross in a twinkling of the eye.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Good point. Maybe that's the Israeli medium-term plan. 'Look how ungovernable it is etc etc.' Not that I'd give much of a chance to the existing sub-Hamas outfits. But the Israelis should be able to supply a few new ones. Look at how they came up with a whole new 'Handing-Out-Aid' organisation to replace the UN/Red Cross in a twinkling of the eye. |
Israel is now in a bad position, Trump will flip flop. Qatar, Turkey, are really bossing this deal, what cards does Bibi now hold ?
Long term I see the US becoming increasingly unwilling to give the sort of uncondtional support to Israel they used to. The outlook for both Hamas and Israel is bleak.
That is often the case for warlike folks that don't plan ahead, you end up actually weaker than you started.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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The government are falling deeper into the mire thanks to their dimwitted decision to declare Palestine Action a terrorist organisation. How Al Qaeda must regret not spraying red paint on RAF planes when they had the chance.
'Percy' Starmer has a tricky decision to make re the hunger-striking Palestinian Actioners. He can't set 'em free because they are on hunger strike, he dare not let them die in prison.
He could try his predecessor, Margaret Thatcher's, manoeuvre with the post-Bobby Sands IRA hunger strikers: allowing them 'to die in the dignity of their own homes' in the hope their families' entreaties would get them to stop, but that ended badly.
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Wile E. Coyote
In: Arizona
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| Mick Harper wrote: | | The government are falling deeper into the mire thanks to their dimwitted decision to declare Palestine Action a terrorist organisation. |
The PM is a former winner of Human Rights lawyer of the year 2001 and the QC of the Year for Human Rights & Public Law in 2007. He has also written extensively on the subject, and has served on the Foreign and Commonwealth death penalty advisory panel. Can anyone think of someone more qualified to take such delicate decisions, ie balancing human rights, freedom of expression, and the need to stop terrorist attacks?
I fail to see how this was dim-witted, Sir Keir surely knew that a terrorist act is accepted within the international community, an act intended to cause death or serious injury or to the taking of hostages, for purpose of intimidating a population or to compel a government to take a certain action.
It does not include criminal damage to property (which were already covered in law) and the police chasing non-terrorsists' for wearing T-Shirts, waving flags and singing songs.
Official figures show 1,630, or 86%, of the 1,886 arrests for terrorism-related activity in the year to the end of September 2025 were linked to support for Palestinian Action. Thanks to Sir Keir we have diverted huge police and anti-terrorism resources and court time to pursuing people that pose no threat to anyone.
Sir Keir now wants to do away with jury trials for many offences.
This is an example of someone taking informed authoritarian political decisions, rather than dim-witted ones.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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| Wiley wrote: | | This is an example of someone taking informed authoritarian political decisions, rather than dim-witted ones. |
I think you're giving him far too much credit for joined-up thinking. I accept Starmer has an authoritarian cast of mind, viz his handling of his own malcontents in the Party, and would be in favour of dealing with Palestinian Action heavy-handedly. But I cannot believe going the terrorist route was what any professional terrorism expert would advise (for the reasons you gave).
So why did he do it? You imply it is to create a generalised authoritarian atmosphere. This is indeed a prime reason why terrorists create outrages--to engender over-reactions--but it clearly wasn't Palestine Action's intention. All Starmer has managed is to produce an ordinary political problem, to add to all his other ones.
No, I'm sticking with dim-wittedness.
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Hatty
Site Admin
In: Berkshire
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| Wile E. Coyote wrote: | | This is an example of someone taking informed authoritarian political decisions, rather than dim-witted ones. |
That is borne out by Starmer's determination to dissociate his government from more traditionally left-wing Labour MPs and any allegations of antisemitism. That seems the main reason why he is so pro-Israel to the extent of introducing new, err, terrorist laws to silence Palestinian activists though presumably most Brits are complaisant given the reported popularity of right-wing political parties.
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Boreades
In: finity and beyond
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The reasons?
1) As per Hattie ^^^
2) It's UniParty business as usual
| Keir Starmer’s government held a private meeting with Elbit Systems, Israel’s largest weapons company .... The meeting occurred in December 2024 and was attended by three representatives from Elbit Systems and three officials from Yvette Cooper’s Home Office. It took place months after Israeli forces used an Elbit drone to kill three British military veterans in Gaza who were protecting a humanitarian aid convoy. ... Under the previous Conservative government, the Home Office also met with Elbit Systems and attempted to encourage the UK police to crack down on pro-Palestine activism. |
Examples of previous?
| Britain’s then home secretary Priti Patel met privately with Martin Fausset, the CEO of Elbit Systems UK, to “discuss protests and securityâ€. Home Office documents revealed that the purpose of the meeting was to “reassure… Fausset that the criminal protest acts against Elbit Systems UK are taken seriously by Governmentâ€. In the meeting, Patel was told how Palestine Action’s protests against Elbit “were getting more and more severeâ€, and the activists were “well organised, funded and trainedâ€. She became “deeply concerned about everything she heardâ€, and produced a number of suggested actions. That list remains redacted in its entirety. |
3) When you've got them by their wallets, their hearts and minds will follow.
| investigations identify roughly 180 of 650 MPs in the last parliament as having accepted funding, hospitality or trips from pro‑Israel organisations, individuals or Israeli state bodies — including 130 Conservative MPs and 41 Labour MPs . Conservative Friends of Israel (CFI) and groups such as ELNET and AICE feature heavily for funding MPs’ visits to Israel; Declassified counted hundreds of paid trips and recorded more than £330,000 in support for Tory visits alone, while Labour‑linked donors and organisations funded over 50 Labour visits valued at over £64,000 ... Senior Labour figures among recipients, including Keir Starmer, Angela Rayner, David Lammy and Rachel Reeves |
4) RAF flights from Cyprus, gathering electronic intelligence, to direct Israeli air strikes
More?
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Our very own Israel lobby. Though there is a difference: they pay us, we don't pay them.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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Christmas Tidings from Bethlehem
Christian clerics in the West Bank town are up in arms because their congregations are "fleeing to Europe and America because of the depredations of Israeli settlers". This may pose uncomfortable questions for Christian fundamentalists, hitherto great champions of Israeli expansionism. Many of us thought Bethlehem was kinda fundamental to Christianity.
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Mick Harper
Site Admin
In: London
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But taking a wider view, it's all going Israel's way.
1. They agreed Phase One in order to get the hostages out (achieved)
2. And the relief supplies to start flowing in (not achieved)
3. But have to stop Phase Two starting (all that talk about a Gaza not under Israeli control)
4. So as soon as talks started between Hamas and Turkey about implementing Phase Two
5. An explosion is reported on the Israeli side of the Yellow Line
6. Netanyahu states that 'retaliation is inevitable'
7. Phase One will have to continue for the time being
8, 9, 10. Repeat 4, 5, 6.
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